Inside the Duke Fuqua MBA Career Center: Insights from Ed Bernier

Pamela Jaffe and Laura Nelson recently sat down with Ed Bernier, Assistant Dean of Daytime MBA Career Services at Duke's Fuqua School of Business, to discuss trends in MBA career services; the evolving recruiting landscape; and Fuqua’s approach to preparing students for success both during and after business school.

MBA Pathfinders: Ed, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us. You’ve been at Fuqua for 15 years – what significant career trends have you seen over that time?

Ed Bernier: It’s been an interesting ride. We had a spicy conversation about this in a team meeting recently: how students’ needs and interests are changing.

However, I also believe it’s also important to follow which companies are hiring as industry hiring trends often drives students’ choices. Let’s take consulting. We often hear: “More people want to do consulting now than they did in the past,” and it’s probably true. However, consulting is an industry where the product is the people; they don’t scale particularly well. The primary input to their product is MBA hires and that feeds into the cycle of students gravitating towards it for both career stability and strong pay.

I’ll give you another example. In the early 2000s, students wanted to work in tech, but the industry wasn’t hiring MBAs. The supply didn’t meet the demand. Fast forward a few years, and companies like Microsoft and Amazon began to see the value of MBAs. Now, after a period of over-hiring, we’re seeing a dip. The job market, more than student desire, often dictates these shifts.

There’s also a growing interest in industries outside the traditional MBA tracks – such as entertainment. I don’t have a line of 400 people long outside my door who want to work in entertainment, but I do have students who do want to work in the industry. Paramount Pictures isn’t going to MBA programs looking for a large leadership pipeline, but they want to talk to a smart MBA student. In short, the needs and wants of our students are expanding on the fringes. 

MBA Pathfinders: On the topic of the current recruiting climate – especially in light of the Wall Street Journal article on MBA recruiting trends – how has the hiring landscape changed recently, especially for tech and consulting? What are you seeing at Fuqua?

Ed Bernier: I won’t sugarcoat it – it’s tougher now than it was two years ago, but let’s keep things in perspective. Graduates are still pulling in $175K+ – 80%− 90% right after graduation.

Expectations are just different now. A couple of years ago, when we were coming out of COVID, it was easy to get a job; placement rates were in the upper 90th percentile. It was wild. We’re not there anymore.

That being said, I try to keep our students focused on the reality of recruiting. There’s an unfortunate tendency for students to compare themselves to the class the prior year and believe that this is “the hardest year ever.” Statistically, that’s not the case. But each year is tougher, and the goal is to make students “recruiting-muscular,” as I like to say. We can’t control the market, but we can ensure that students are as prepared as possible to land a job – whether it’s with McKinsey or a startup.

MBA Pathfinders: How do you prepare students for that, especially when they have such diverse interests?

Ed Bernier: Great question. We offer a comprehensive pre-MBA training curriculum that begins when a student is admitted including asynchronous learning, Zoom workshops, and some classes when they arrive on campus. While the majority will be gearing up for on-campus recruiting, we also cater to those looking for roles in industries that don’t typically recruit on campus.

To keep them engaged, I liken it to training for a marathon. Runners tend to train together – something about running in a group provides accountability, whether their “race” is tomorrow or in four months.

The core group of students is running toward the same finish line – internship recruiting – but the students with niche interests need to know that their race may take a bit longer. We put everyone through a similar training regimen, so whether they’re interviewing the following week or in six months, they’re prepared and “recruiting-ready.”

MBA Pathfinders: How do you manage expectations?

Ed Bernier: We often refer to the IDEO mood chart – a horseshoe-shaped diagram that illustrates the emotional journey of any project. The first day of business school – everyone’s excited, high-fiving, motivated. At some point, reality hits. Students realize they don’t have all the resources or knowledge they need. It starts getting hard. Students begin asking themselves: “Am I going to be able to do this?”

I tell students that “everyone goes through this journey.” Some of the things we do as a department are literally to accelerate this journey. We want students to experience any issue they might encounter in a warm, safe environment with us, before they have to deal with it in real-world interviews. The sooner a student stumbles, the sooner they can rebuild their confidence.

MBA Pathfinders: That’s really insightful. You also mentioned the evolving nature of recruiting. Looking ahead, are there specific areas where you see MBA graduates being in greater demand in the next decade, especially with AI and future-of-work trends?

Ed Bernier: Hiring over the years has focused on knowledge-capital and how people use new skills. This is where tech has exploded. Technology has always existed. Tech companies did not start hiring MBAs to develop new code, but to figure out what to do with all the code they had.

Now tech is figuring out what to do with AI: both internally and how to commercialize it. It’s not just about automating products. It’s about how to use a new tool to either create some automation in a process or extract intelligence that was taking a lot of time and people to figure out. Tech companies have historically brought in MBAs to commercialize innovation. That’s likely to continue. I think of this as a knowledge capability area that MBAs are in a good place to help with.  

I also think consulting will remain a strong industry. MBAs are generalists, and they excel at helping organizations navigate complex problems. MBAs want to work in places that are going to provide them exposure to different areas. There is a nice supply and demand there.

One area I think is ripe for change – and people have been talking about this for a while – is investment banking. I am fascinated to see what it will look like in four or five years. While some may think AI will disrupt IB, I believe it’ll free up people to focus on more high-level, strategic work, like relationship-building and smart decision-making.

MBA Pathfinders: So, do you think AI will create new opportunities in investment banking or just transform the existing ones?

Ed Bernier: It will definitely be transformative. A lot of entry-level work in investment banking – like data analysis – is replicable with AI. But the higher-level work, such as client relationship management and strategy, is where MBAs will continue to shine. AI can handle data, but it can’t replace the nuanced human thoughts that go into big financial decisions.

MBA Pathfinders: That’s a great point. AI seems like it’ll be more of a tool, rather than a replacement.

Ed Bernier: Exactly. It’s not about replacing people; it’s about making their work more impactful. AI will make people smarter, not obsolete.

MBA Pathfinders: Duke is well known for healthcare. Is it realistic to go into healthcare post-MBA without prior experience?

Ed Bernier: Healthcare is one of those areas where Fuqua really differentiates itself. The program started as a Masters in Health Administration and morphed into an MBA. Duke as a university is strong across the board in healthcare – with Duke Health, the medical school, hospital system, and research – and Fuqua plugs right into that ecosystem.

As for going into healthcare without prior experience – it depends. Healthcare has many flavors: provider, payer, pharma, medical devices, etc. The capabilities that are needed for each of these are different. For example, if someone wants to be a hospital administrator, do they need healthcare experience? Not necessarily. However, a person with that experience would bring something valuable to the table.

Is it a barrier? No. Is it a helpful skill? Absolutely – but lack of experience certainly won’t keep you out. In fact, some healthcare organizations want people without prior experience – to move away from the legacy thinking that is in healthcare today.

Personally, I had a stint at Johnson & Johnson with no healthcare background. As a marketer, I brought different skills based on my non-healthcare background.

MBA Pathfinders: What are some of the biggest mistakes you see candidates make?

Ed Bernier: One of the biggest missteps is misunderstanding the competitive landscape. Many students assume their competition is limited to their classmates, but that’s not how employers think. These days, companies are sourcing talent globally. You’re not just competing with the person sitting next to you – you’re competing with every MBA on the planet.

This changes the mindset you need going in. You’re not outrunning one slow caribou – you’re in a race with runners you can’t even see. You need to run as fast as you possibly can. I don’t say that to scare students; I say it to ground them in reality. That’s the mindset it takes to compete today.

MBA Pathfinders: That’s a great point. Especially in industries like tech – new MBAs are competing with people who already have tech experience, or are several years post-MBA, for the same roles.

Ed Bernier: Absolutely. It’s easy to forget that many of these experienced candidates have been doing the work for five-plus years – and they’re great at it. So “I’m smart and I want to switch into this thing I’ve never done before” doesn’t sound as competitive.

MBA Pathfinders: Are there particular career goal transitions that strike you as especially unrealistic?

Ed Bernier: I’m open to career switchers. However, the probability in some industries is higher than in others. We’ve moved past the age where all you had to do was tell an employer why you might be good at something. Now you need to show them.

Employers have realized that giving candidates real-world challenges during interviews – case questions, practical problems, simulations – is a great way to assess who’s ready to contribute. The people who can answer them well are probably the right hires.

If we were hiring someone to lay bricks, we’d want to see them actually lay some bricks, right? We’d still train them to improve, but it’s reasonable for employers to expect a candidate to be as close to “ready on day one” as possible. It’s not enough to say you’re interested – you have to demonstrate that you can deliver.

The changes that don’t make sense for me are when the student says, “I really want to do this – even though I’ve never done it or even tried.” That’s a red flag.

For example, I’ve had students tell me they dream of working in sports. They’d say, “I love basketball – it reminds me of my father, it’s my life’s dream to work in basketball.” However, sometimes  when I ask what they’ve done in the space, they say, “Nothing.” That’s not going to cut it. Same with venture capital and impact investing. If you haven’t demonstrated either impact or investing skills – or ideally both – it’s a tough sell.

MBA Pathfinders: We get the sports dream a lot, too. Sometimes it’s people who played seriously. Other times, candidates say, “I just love watching it on TV.”

Ed Bernier: Exactly! There’s a huge difference between being a fan and understanding the business. There is also an expectation from students that participating in something – like coding or sports – means they’re a shoo-in for a role that they know is hard to get even at the company they used to be at. Being a participant in an industry doesn’t necessarily provide a competitive advantage.

Let me give you two examples – sports and tech.

Just because someone played sports doesn’t mean they understand media rights or revenue models. Similarly, watching a lot of games doesn’t mean you understand the strategic issues the industry is wrestling with. You need to show that you’ve thought about the business side – that you can talk intelligently about the challenges and trends shaping that industry.

In tech, a student might say, “I’ve been a developer my whole career, so I’d be a great product manager.” Okay, maybe – but have you been part of the conversations where customer needs get translated into product requirements? Have you helped shape a solution someone would actually buy? If not, then you’re not there yet.

The mistake is assuming that just because you’ve been near the work, you’re ready to do the work. In fact, I often have higher expectations for people coming from within an industry. If you were already there, I expect you to be further along.

MBA Pathfinders: What about the reverse? We work with a lot of consultants who want to become PMs. They’ve worked on tech clients and became interested in product management, but they don’t have engineering backgrounds. Is that a realistic path?

Ed Bernier: Completely. The challenge for someone without an engineering background is usually confidence. They don’t feel comfortable having technical conversations, and that holds them back.

What matters is being able to engage in the conversation – not knowing how to write code. If you’re not comfortable talking about product development, that’s what you need to fix. Take a Python class if that helps you get familiar with how things are built – but know that a few months of coding won’t make you an expert. If you don’t enjoy it, don’t waste your time. The goal isn’t to become a developer; it’s to become credible.

MBA Pathfinders: Great examples. As a follow-up: there’s some level-setting during the admissions process, and then students go through pre-MBA prep and recruiting. How much coordination is there between admissions and your office? Do you ever compare what someone wrote in their career essay to what they say after they arrive?

Ed Bernier: Not that much. I’m not doing a before-and-after analysis of what someone wrote versus what they now want to do.

Sometimes we’ll weigh in on applications – not to say someone should or shouldn’t be admitted, but to comment on whether their goals make sense. I might flag a goal that seems disconnected from reality. The key question is: does it make sense? Not is it likely to happen? Even if something’s low-probability, it’s not usually a dealbreaker for admission – at least not at Duke.

MBA Pathfinders: Before we end I would like to ask you about your career office. How is it structured?

Ed Bernier: I tell prospective students: if we were starting a career office tomorrow, we’d face a choice – do we hire generalist coaches or industry specialists?

Fuqua has both. We have a large coaching team organized by industry. Our coaches are responsible for both students and employers. I want the coach to be able to develop a plan to take new students from zero to as-ready-as-possible to compete in that industry.

At the same time, I rely on that coach to understand the best employers in that space today and in the next five to ten years, as I want to make sure Duke is interacting with them. Who are the amazing organizations in the space today and who do we want to take a bet on? At the end of the day, I want Duke graduates to be in all of the important seats. If we choose the employers we want to work with, we may as well choose the best ones.

We also have a big employer engagement team which manages the execution of events and the day to day employer relationships. That’s also the team that does business development for us. That’s across all the MBA programs, not just the daytime.

Our key differentiator is we are big. I know because my peers at other schools always ask me how we got so many hires approved.

MBA Pathfinders. That’s great. We only have a few minutes left. Any final words?

Ed Bernier: When a student comes in with a strong sense of purpose – even if it's still evolving – it changes everything. The conversations are more strategic, the preparation is more focused, and we can make better introductions. It’s not about having all the answers, but about having a thoughtful starting point.

MBA Pathfinders: Interesting. Thanks, Ed. This was incredibly helpful.

Ed Bernier: Really enjoyed the conversation. Thanks for having me.